Friend Reviews. To see what your friends thought of this book, please sign up. To ask other readers questions about A Better Way , please sign up. Lists with This Book. This book is not yet featured on Listopia. Community Reviews. Showing Rating details. More filters. Sort order. It is short, a little revolutionary in it's missionary focus of sending bi-vocational type missionaries, even to people groups inside our borders. Dale's description of what a disciple looks like is both a telling description of what should characterize our lives, but also the goal of ministry in impacting the lives of others.
His chapter on "Learning to Love Like Jesus" is worth the read by itself. Don't need to necessarily study in fancy seminaries. Just be at work in the world. France que te quiero France. Dale Losch presents a forward-looking perspective of discipleship and the roles of missionaries in today's church. I gave my highlighter a good work out and would encourage everyone who is serious about discipleship to check out this book! We need to look at our world and realize that more than half of the population lives in countries that don't allow "missionaries". Yet, these people need the gospel message.
And Jesus commanded, "Go, and make disciples Leslie rated it it was amazing Sep 14, Jacob Coldwell rated it really liked it Jan 11, Peter Cheyne rated it really liked it Dec 11, E rated it really liked it Dec 25, Tony rated it really liked it Dec 26, Krista rated it really liked it Aug 26, Janet rated it it was amazing May 05, Bruce Stopher rated it really liked it Jan 25, Jack Blankenship rated it really liked it Jun 01, Mary Roper rated it it was amazing Apr 15, Timothy Spencer Horne rated it it was amazing Nov 22, Elizabeth Small rated it really liked it Feb 03, Lois rated it liked it Oct 05, Luke Perkins rated it it was amazing Jan 04, Kathy Stewart rated it it was amazing Apr 27, Brad McCarthy rated it really liked it May 03, Kate rated it it was ok Nov 07, Meghan rated it really liked it Aug 29, And we still had a lot to learn.
Then he set up these discipleship courses several days a week to study about discipleship. To be honest, most of the material and his teaching was about how we should submit to the person God has put in place to disciple us. To me this started to become a form of control. It seemed he was using this as a way to enforce submission.
One may justify these things as ordinary or right depending on your doctrine in your church but I feel that leaders like this have missed the point. There is too much focus on self. And as you would have it the discipleship course was stagnant. There was also a lot of emphasis in that church on being already mature before being a disciple but this article makes me wonder if this was the point Jesus made across to his first disciples.
In fact i realise that some of them were really immature and in their thinking but Jesus knew it was because of their little faith at the time. But lo and behold, after Jesus left, maturity spiked in his disciples like never before. The emphasis was always on church fellowship. But we only had one pastor and no one else, for years. No one else was ever called into these ministries. But people had useful spiritual gifts but they were not being properly built up and their spiritual gifts were not acknowledge and utilized for the ministry unless they took on tedious lectures for a period of 3 months or more.
As a result many of these people left because they felt stagnant and were not able to use their spiritual gifts to serve God in this house. They were basically disregarded. Some of the spiritual gifts are to be out into action immediately. Looking into the new testament, some times there was no training or human interference by a leader. It was the Holy Spirit doing His job. We headed departments and reported back to the pastor.
None of us had any specific calling. And those that did were not selected to lead or encourage. We were the people who headed the prayer groups, the music group, the deco group, the secretary and the finance group, all chosen by the pastor. Not by the church in entirety as it was with the first deacons. And whenever they was even slight hint of immaturity we were rebuked because we were giving the church a bad name. So many shrunk and felt to feign holiness but not being transformed by God. Living out of fear of failing the pastor.
The expectations were high and the room for failure was so small. So we lived in this kind of fear of not measuring up. I believe now that this is not the right way. We are also to learn from the ones who have claimed more maturity, but if this learning comes with a hefty dosage of judgment which doesnt build up in love, then we have a bunch of people not leaving in Christlike freedom. Not freedom to sin but the freedom to live and learn while living in Christ without condemnation.
I have learned a lot from this article. God bless you.
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My family too had issues like yours with our former local church. Though we prayed to God to give us the grace for the mistreatment of the leaders to the minorities, we came to a point that we need to protect ourselves that the Holy Spirit led us to a loving church not perfect but being perfected through sanctification. I hope and pray that whatever happens, our Faithful Heavenly Father guides us through as we walk by faith while we wait.
The great commission in Matthew was given to those apprentices called disciples, You can only give what you have. Romans Here we see that a disciples is commissioned to make disciple agreed. Elisha went through discipleship under Elijah. In Matthew 4: The call of disciple, 2 Timothy And the things you heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others.
You have to be solder to make a solder. I stand to be corrected on how we to make a disciple and not be disciple. Luke 6;40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher. I think you misunderstood that point. Jesus says make disciples but many are stuck on being disciples only: sitting at the feet but never going out to do anything. We learn more by doing. The emphasis is on the action word: Make. Of course the best way to make is to be.
But if you wait for perfection you will never do anything. So the point was to learn but while learning, do. The disciples of Jesus we not perfect men in full control of their carnality before they made other disciples for Christ. But with time they became better. Im a believer in Christ. I have no doubt. My struggle is true discipleship. And then in Luke So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions. My question is there even one today doing this?
We can believe but are we truely obeying? I do my best to love everyone. I Encourage those around me to change there view when upset, angry, stressed, anything negative, in attempt to see theres more to all things. Not to let emotions lead but love, patiences and discipline mature us. Influence good or bad outside of Jesus teachings drawn us away from discipleship. This leads to even more questions and truths. Biggest question is where do each of us stand personally? God designed the family. Go back to Genesis 29 where Leah and Rachel is wrote about. Jacob loved Leah and he loved Rachel, but Jacob loved Rachel more.
He loved Rachel so much more that if you could place the two loves side by side the love he had for Rachel was so great; that when compared to the love of Leah it looks like hatred. Jesus in the New Testament is saying your love for Him should be so much more that when set beside anything else the love for Christ should be so great that it looks like hatred.
Our problem in the church I believe is we are over correcting our discipleship towards the church members. We have failed at discipleship and now we are over correcting. We end up preaching and teaching a works base approach to God. We first and foremost need to realize the Biblical Love of Christ towards man and if we start to see how far God had reached down to us. Our response should be then to serve Him. For Paul write to the Galation Church and was marveled how soon they were removed from the truth of the gospel that he taught them.
It is about Jesus. And it is about others. It was never about you anyway. Follow Jesus and obey him there you will be certain where you stand. I understand the context of these passages and why Jesus told the Pharisees about such. Also, as a follower of Christ, we know that our flesh and our heart may fail at times and this is a humbling truth that apart from Christ, we can do nothing. I believe that a genuine Christian will follow Christ no matter how he fails in life… Because the measure of true Discipleship is not pointed toward us but to our Discipler, Jesus.
Please pray with us that God will provide us with all the resources required to build our planned international christian school Camp David Green Academy in Kenya. I am sorry that I did not see your post earlier. I wanted to see how things are progressing with your school, and find out more that I might possibly be of help. Thank you, and God Bless. It is easy to lament all of the problems and miss the reality that Christ loves the church. Where can I go for that? The Navigators have excellent materials.
Are you kidding?
a Better Way Make Disciples Wherever Life Happens by Dale Losch
And, then, it only took me to the second comment to have that negativity hit me and the full force of my disillusionment come back full force. Methinks that was at least the partial point of the article….
Speaking as a survivor of clergy sexual abuse protestant who has seen some ugly in the church, the absolute last thing to do when facing disillusionment is to separate from the church. In no way am I downplaying your hurt.
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Your disillusionment is a great step forward, honestly. Everybody goes through the disillusionment stage. Brands plucked from the fire, sinners saved by grace, sheep needing a shepherd…. Pslam 45 shows what Jesus sees in His church. Jesus gave His life for us when we were yet sinners. Even better, you know the problem is you which is great. I do feel however, that the progression of knowledge follows the trend of maturity — not that it produces it, but that it should follow it.
A better verse to support this claim can be found in 1 Timothy Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers. I know I have. Also, Acts As soon as it was night, the believers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. I mean, it says knowing the love of Christ is greater than knowledge. This is so odd. I very much wish logic and rhetoric were still taught in school. Praise Jesus. That is, going to church for me. Maturity and growth are a direct result of relationship.
I submit to you that God is there with you whether you feel Him or not. He said He would be which is where Faith comes into play. Also, these praise and worship bands provide entertainment and are a distraction to true worship. This statement will upset some becuase they love their music.
Ask yourself this. Why did you chose the church your in now or what are you looking for in a church? I wish I had more time to discuss this topic as I think its very important, not only for the future of our kids but the church as well. I hope my words did not offend anyone as they were said in love for my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. Thank you Carey for being so passionate not only in sharing the truth and practicality of it but also in helping others evaluate their present situation to the end it may lead to greater glory of God and His work.
One point from 4 about the inevitability of a morally messy church may contain an error. A disciple doubting the resurrection sounds like an oxymoron to me. Paul says if you confess with you mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the Gospel. So is the problem with the church then a blurred vision of the true Gospel message?
Have we watered down the Gospel so much that we are not even presenting the real Gospel? I think maybe that is the real problem because the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. A watered down Gospel has no power at all. Just my thoughts…. Jesus never waited for the people He helped to be mature before telling them to go home to their household or personal communities whom Jesus restored to do so , and tell them what Jesus had done for them. I have a few Christian in my congregation who are messy, they like me are learning, and becoming. Great article. I know of a man professing to be Christian and calls himself a disciple of Jesus Christ.
Constantly repetitive in His praise to God. Told me God thanked him for praying over an hour. I was not impressed. Today too many say God tells them things when it is them feeding their vanity. He professes to be a disciple. He has no real fruit of Gods Holy Spirit. I would think that when we mature we are called to teach others how to discipline their lifes.. We must grow each day. This man I mentioned speaks as the world. He likes attention. He came out of a discipleship center. Was there 3 years in his 50s. He believes as long as his words praise God he is saved. He is very loud.
I found your article refreshing. God bless. Thats never okay. You need to make sure you put your home — or church- and family — or church family — first. That should be tje 1 priority. If youre neglecting your own church but then saying to go out and evangelize, youre being an absolute hypocrite. How can you just neglect your members like that? You think thats the right thing to do? I was really confused by that. Are you saying we dont follow God? That makes no sense. Can we not be AND make disciples?? Does that mean we arent Christians?? It just doesnt work that way.
I think you are being a little cynical here. But let me disagree with you here for a moment. Evangelism is not only a gift. The seat of Evangelist part of the five-fold ministry, but you do not need to be called to the seat of evangelist to be an evangelist. If you study the term evangelist and where it was derived from your perspective would be changed.
The evangelist would carry around a legal document back in the day called an euangelion. The euangelion was a document that announced the arrival of the heir to the thrown, meaning the son of the King has been born.. So being called an evangelist just means that you are carrying the message or the announcement of the arrival of the King. And if you think that you can be a Christian and not share this good news, you are making a mistake. Praise be to God. Pls also identify themes that are common to your views in the article.
When we do that we realize the church truly has a common goal- to know Christ and to make him known to the nations. The article goes further to challenge us to be more effective. This commentary has been tugging on my heart strings for several years! Why is it that the large churches continue to get larger and the small ones stay small?
Is God different in the large ones verses the small ones? Is the gospel different? Are the large churches growing because of decipleship? Whether you attend a small or large church, are the brother and sisterhood any closer outside the church walls than inside? Why is there thousands of different churches all following for the most part the gospel of Christ?
Do you think having more knowledge of the scripture created all of these churches following the same gospel? What is doctrine? Does doctrine dictate the gospel? What is missing????? If the answer is in the Bible, does having more knowledge of the Bible complete the puzzle? Why does the non-christians feel that all we do is psycobabble our religion? Is psycobabble just another term for decipleship? Again, really, what is decipleship????
What is missing???? My father was a paster for almost thirty years, 1st half on Sunday, 2nd half on Saturday! He spent most of his life obedient to Christ and to the doctrine of his church. Yet, during all of his years committing to being a deciple of Christ, he admitted to me close to his death that this was the hardest most frustrating thing to do.
What was missing during his life as a paster???? There was talk of knowledge of the scriptures, but as I said earlier, does that make us a deciple? Where can wisdom be found? What is knowledge? Now what is missing???? They answered, No, we have not heard that there is a Holy Spirit. ROMANS ,  …called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God  the gospel he promised beforehand…  regarding his Son Jesus Christ  and through the Spirit Holy Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
That was really a good reply! I agree the church is getting discipleship wrong, but adding more rules and programs is not the answer. Faith is always the missing piece the world does not understand. When we act as ambassadors for Christ we are living out the gospel, when we give to the orphan and widow, we are living out the gospel. The gospel will always be the stench of death to those who are perishing, but we have an oppertunity to share our faith with those around us… only the Holy Spirit can draw them.
Teaching the scriptures… etc. God used John to define love as life to those who believe. So because we are told in the letters of John the world is going to perish and because we are told in the Gospel of John that Jesus has no part with the world and neither should people who take His name, then no, God does not love the world. Rather He loves the believers out of it and its condemnation into life. Corrected errors. So because we are told the letters if John the world is going to perish and because we are told in the Gospel of John that Jesus has no part with the world and neither should people who take His name, then no, God does not love the world.
I loved this article, Carey. We have to go and expand the family of God and encourage others to go do the same through evangelization. You can count me in now! I like much of what you say here but I would disagree with your be vs make disciples. As a pastor, I would not want new Christians with little knowledge of the Bible or Christian disciplines starting by discipling others. While the pastor s and other leaders have a role in discipling, people also have to take ownership of their own discipleship.
The summaries of the church I read in Acts are of Christians seeking to BE disciples by studying the teachings of the apostles, prayer, fellowship, etc. While I get your point, I do think you present a false dichotomy. Remember the woman at the well? She drew a crowd to Jesus even before she had had a full class of discipleship with Jesus. Great article! The Corinthian church was, in all likelihood, an evangelizing, disciple -making church and that is probably why or the main reason it had so many carnal members. I know I did and still do. I remember when! God is not finished with me, with all believers, who still walk this earth.
Another reason to be gracious towards other believers. Great post Carey. A student learns to know what the teacher knows so they get a passing grade. An apprentice learns to do what the teacher does. Can you provide a link for this translation? I am not versed in Hebrew and my google searches are failing me. Yes, yes…. We have wrongly separated evangelism and discipleship, and ironically discipleship from disciple-making. What is it we are actually seeking to produce? I think this is great. But I do think this is putting it a little too black and white, when in reality it should go together —acknowledging that two things are both part of each other.
Barth says that faith is knowledge, so we do need that. But he does call this to be knowledge that forms and guides our lives. So our discipleship is to be one that is done because we have this knowledge. So we are to forgive our enemies because Jesus has called us to do so, we feed the poor because Jesus fed the poor, we evangelize because Christ called us to do so, and most importantly, we love because Jesus has loved us.
All of those are things we know of, but our knowledge has just put them there, as information. Our faith knowledge has to be more of doing, which does include evangelism, but that evangelism is certainly only found in the discipleship. Furthermore, for those who love God, the two would be mutually inclusive. We cannot be a true disciple without discipling others and we cannot truthfully disciple others without being a disciple.
We follow and lead at the same time. I am not speaking of salvation requirements, but of discipleship. When you can restore believers without condemning or judging them, knowing any of us, no matter how mature can fall into sin. Carey, this is so helpful. I find myself making these same statements when approaching ministry. Jesus DOES actually love the world. I knew it all along, He actually loves this place! This is how you learn how to do the making. This is where you learn humility. And, then, at the same time you must be in another relationship where you are doing the making and the other is doing the being.
But, even before that — that plank that is in thine own eye — that must be dealt with. Do that — and learn — then you can teach others, having demonstrated it in your own life. Discipleship is about helping others remove the splinters from their eyes. Great stuff and just another confirmation to what God has placed in my heart…thank you for sharing! I hope lead pastors will get this message. For the most part, I agree with the article — especially the link of discipleship to evangelism. Yes, they are one and the same and should not be seen as separate entities. Nevertheless, making disciples presupposes discipleship.
And while you are correct in indicating the thrust of Matthew , we also have Mark and parallels, Luke 12, Matthew , Romans , Hebrews if translated correctly. Simply put, the cross is not only something done for us, but also a paradigm of discipleship. If you are indicating that discipleship comes when we quit focusing so much on our progress and look outward to engaging mission, then I agree. Perhaps the article could be worded a bit better. Nevertheless, points 2,3, — yes, I agree wholeheartedly!
My research would track well with your comments 3 to the end, but not with 1 or 2. Jesus certainly calls us to be disciples.
As You Go, Make Disciples | The Navigators
I know you correct yourself later, but I think the comment would be better left unsaid. What Jesus never did say or Paul or anyone else: Go into the world and make converts. Sure we need to tell folks about Jesus, the Gospel, and the Hope of Heaven through words and actions. We need to love God and others. But that kind of evangelism should flow out of our love of God and others. Appreciate your comment Randy. Christ-followers regularly shared their faith and radically changed their lives.
Otherwise the spread of Christianity would not have happened. But I appreciate you weighing in.