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View Product. My Son, the Wizard. Yo una vez converse con la familia australiana con la que estuve viviendo, de todas las cosas que me parecian mal de Australia y ellos apreciaron mi honestidad y me encontraron razon en la mayoria de los puntos. See what i mean? Ahora, de que esto es una real burrada, te lo resumo en esto: 1. Hola Aldrin, gracias por comentar. Pero yo creo que es mas facil si uno sale. Eso es mi consejo no mas.
Nathan i Really want you to travel to Guatemala mi origin Country and make a article like this one of you experience you see and live in this country because we have a really talented People that are losing motivate to success thanks to the government and love quality Jobs in the papernews….
I have a degree in Japanese, and have been to Japan two times. I also travel around Asia. There are some Asian cultures that do not necessarily say what they really want and since it is a cultural thing, I respect it. The passive aggressive behavior you refer to is mostly in Santiago, which in my Santiagina view, is the result of a sick life style. There is classim and I do not like it.
It is a reality but that has to do with family upbringing and nothing with traveling or living abroad. In Chile, I have really good cuico friends, who have never lived abroad. I have traveled around other Southamerican countries and just because we speak the same language does not mean that we share the same values.
For example, Mexicans are much more Catholic than we are, Bolivia has a completely indigenous background, and I think that to live in a Latin-American country can give as much perspective as living in the US or even more. However, I do see the nice things of living here in the US. For example, people in the US are mostly nice, say hello, thank you, and if someone bumps into you on the street, that person may apologize.
Something that almost never happens in Santiago. That having been said, I have the impression that the vast majority of people here do not travel. Or live abroad. Nor do they care to hear about those who do. Nevertheless, I have met many people from the UK, Japan and the US that would rather live abroad than to live in their native countries.
The Best Thing a Chilean Can Do is to Leave Chile – Nathan Lustig
For example, one of them is my husband, who is a gringo and has traveled to 40 different countries. Why do you think that is? I think the US is a good country just like Chile. Traveling is ok, but to get the full benefit, a gringo should live and work out of Santiago, ideally for at least a year. My entire point is not that one place is better than another, its that many chileans believe their way is the only way.
Some things are better in Chile, others in the US, others in Japan etc. I went to public school in Chile, my last name was Castro and I have dark skin. It was very difficult to find a good job for me in my country after I was done with veterinarian school, even tho I had excellent grades. I moved with my american husband to the US 5 years ago and here I got an excellent job with the government, got promoted and at work people values me for the quality of my job. Great article! I am from the US, but I lived in Chile for 25 years and think that your are absolutely on the spot.
If more Chileans would live somewhere in the developed world for a year ideally, more than a year and then return, it might help Chilean society move in a healthy direction. Discrimination against others is rampant in Australia, the U. S and Europe too. Just for example the way black Americans and Mexicans are treated in the U. S , or Indian people in Australia without mentioning the aborigines. Traveling is a very humbling experience. Especially for a gringito.
But you would not know that. Because you are a tourist. As a Chilean, I agree with the main point, but I find somehow intelectually dishonest to suggest that dark skinned people are necessarily better received in Europe or the USA, parts of the world with a history of state sponsored racism which we couldnt even dream to have. Maybe in the major cities, with some people, just like in Santiago. But I wouldnt recommend a moreno fellow Chilean to look for fraternal love in Harrison, Arkansas, or in a small town in Bavaria.
Good post, Nathan. I can tell by your polite answers that you are trying to be supportive. I once experienced a fascinating situation, which turned out to be an unexpected sociological experiment. Everyone was giving cool ideas and trying to help. After a while, I noticed everyone was feeling a bit uncomfortable, without having a particular reason. I realised then that all segments of our society were represented there, and that this very meeting would have been simply impossible in Chile. This malaise was very subtle, but we went ahead anyways.
The event was a big success. They even tried to organise a meeting to accuse him, which I formally opposed. Long story short : this is a deep division in our society, where each side mistrusts the other. I am optimistic it will change, but it will take several generations of improved public education. Thanks for the great comment and the story. This sounds perfect if you live in the US… here the politicians would simply assing those to friends and family…. Yep, most of them even belong to the government… or to one of the governing political parties…. Yo vivo en Minnesota y me encanta ver la mezcla de gente que se produce.
Es una mezcla que jamas se produciria en Chile. Afortunadamente, no nos ha pasado lo que les paso a uds. I am glad to hear that. It also, helps to have experienced the same sometimes odd situations, especially at the beginning. The money was duly transfered to the foundation Un Techo para Chile The organiser was brilliant in motivating a bunch of people, getting a place for free, a tent and so on. At the end, everyone felt he or she had made a difference.
We had a lot of similar cases in previous years. Come on, Chile is fine, the beaches with cold water and all, the snow resorts being incredibly expensive and all… it is only the chileans who make this country ugly… and the prices??? Are we living in Switzerland? If the bible was written these days it would not talk about the babiloneans being the bad guys… but the chileans…. Chile so expensive, university, food, etc as if we lived in developed country. I have lived in Spain, US and China, but I like my country where I came back a few years ago, in spite of being full of classism, separation, etc.
If was not the case in my univ years although college wa expensive. Totally agree with you, I moved to Turkey with my husband and my children 11 and 8 years old for a year, and although it was a courageous decision I think the opportunities are invaluable for them.
They see the world beyond the mountains that protect us abd to know different customs, religion and culture. I also very much agree with the class system you describe and that even here, so far, I played live with some of the chileans I met here most older people made me feel at home, lol. Hi Carolina, thanks for commenting! Fact is, the Chilean political and economical system is a complete scam for most of the population.
I could go on forever. I believe these are some of the reasons for most of the things you list in your article. You are one of the many problems Chile has now, Nathan. Instead of running away from our beloved country of Chile, we can easily solve the problems we have here. This article itself is classist and shows that you let that be a major part of your life. All I see here is a rant against Chile and the way society works in the country.
Mainly Santiago because yet again your generalizing. The lower class here has a huge resentment towards the upper class that is so disgusting that they themselves have been brought up in. If my neighbor or friend etc gets something new, lives in a new area etc Who really cares? If you let such meaningless things affect you, then you sure have a closed mind and are not bringing nothing new into the table.
I hope you open your eyes and stop putting the classism of Chile on a pedestal and live your life happily. Why does it exist? My dream here in Chile is to make this country more welcoming for tourists and a better place for chileans. Hello Nathan, congratulations on this article. Although it might apply to a huge number, I am afraid that the biggest impact of moving abroad basically mainly if not only applies to middle-high and middle-low classes in Chile.
This happens because day a day they move in a different sphere as we the rest normally do, and whenever they move, they already have pre-setted who will they meet aristocratic peers and where they will go. So, no real impact or barely no impact at all on social awareness in this group. But anyways I wanted to point it out. As a Chilean, married to a German and currently living in Berlin, I can say muticulturalism changed my life. But it was not after I started travelling and living abroad, that my way of thinking shifted making me realise that being caucassian and well educated, were indeed two invaluable assets that opened many doors that remain closed for many other chileans nowadays.
Coming to Europe was one of the best decisions I have made in my life. Chile is a country to come back, so I will eventually, and I am sure that my experience will help undirectly to some of my closest circle to try and live abroad for a while. Hi Kike, thanks for commenting. I agree with you, not everyone will take advantage of their time abroad, many upper class people will come back with an even higher opinion of chile because life is so good. But leaving is one of the best ways to potentially expose yourself to other viewpoints.
Some will take advantage of the opportunity, others will not. With reference to your blogs comments about chilean citizens I writing to express myself in a few points, to help you understand the chilean situation:. In spite of all this, education in Chile is, most of the time, inmutable. Dear Mr. Please watch that video it will challenge the dogmas taught by the elitist intellectuals of the left.
I think we all must recognize the privilege we have, but not feel ashamed about it. Very accurate, I recommend to add a Spanish version so a larger number of Chileans can ready read it. As a Chilean, I remember when I lived and worked as a teacher in Wisconsin and Minnesota and I had to explain all the crap we grew up with, being classicist is second skin to all Chileans among lots of other things like to look down Mapuches the most numerous native American group , I include myself.
Great article. I am craving for working as a teacher any of the destinations mentioned above. Thanks for commenting! I hope you enjoyed my home state of wisconsin and got to sample some of our beer and cheese while you where there! Have you ever met a British or an upper-class German?? However I disagree with something, I think it is far more important to send US people abroad than Chileans. Since Chile is not involved in wars and foreing affairs trying to control other countries and etc.
It is a must for the US to educate their own people about foreing countries, to send them abroad to see how the world looks like before to try to conquer it lol. Since Chileans can only harm our own society we are not that important. Your second point is interesting and I agree more people from the US should travel abroad.
El racismo se cura viajando y el fascismo leyendo Unamuno. If you are not an educated person and you live in a footloose town and they send you to a war in Irak, for sure you would have an Abu Ghraib. Still, we have Guantanamo who is supported by a a nation against all the international agreements. True, my critics goes directly to the US, because I consider that nation far more dangerous than any other, plus if you go to redneck land it is the same or worst than any other third world country.
However I do believe that this is different in other places where I have been. My problem with your post is that it feel so self-righteous… considering how Trump has raised among the republican candidates, How can you write a post about classism, elitism and maybe racism without looking at the US society? I live in Europe and while it is far more multicultural than any country in America meaning the whole continent , the very same problems can be found everywhere.
Within the UK classism and elitism are serious problems, in France racism is a very huge issue. As I pointed out above, the problem is the tone of the post, which seems to be very self-righteous and, somehow, moralistic. Mostly when you consider how hard is for the afro-american and latino immigrants to improve their social status within the US. Not alone to talk about the problem of the police brutality against them. Which claims the question, Which society?
The US? European Nations? I think you are thinking about your own society and therefore making a claim of superiority which is not real, considering again, the big social issues that are hidden in the US. Hi Nate. I found your article to be interesting and accurate to some degree. I have two points.
As a foreigner, it is really hard for me to wrap my head around because the overwhelming majoriy of Chileans have darker features, regardless of income. Cuicos simply straighten their hair and wear designer clothes. I think you have missed a very important reason for Chileans leaving. Chilean women would benefit greatly from traveling abroad and realizing that men can cook and clean for themselves and that they are not responsible for doing so. They could live with less pirpos and blatant sexism. They could see themselves as more than just mothers.
Meanwhile, Chilean men can learn to cook and clean for themselves and respect women as equals. For both Chilean women and men, being abroad might mean they get to expand their minds on LGBT issues. While sexism exists to some degree everywhere, it is very strong here as it is in most Latin American countries. Thanks for bringing it up! Esto lo escribe un resentido social, peruano, colombiano o boliviano. Y debes ser bien tontito como para decir lo que a firmaste.
Gracias, en todo caso no veo el insulto. Mas encima no vives en Chile. Los modales del chileno promedio han bajado considerablemente y Ud. Andate a la chucha weon tonto. If you can afford to leave and work overseas for some time, do so! If working overseas is not as practical as it could be, travelling overseas as a tourist comes a distant second in terms of educative potential, but is a lot of fun.
As someone who has worked in 3 different workplace cultures and 5 different countries, the experience one gains is invaluable. If working outside of Chile is not an option for whatever reason, there are ways within the country to diversify ones experience. Study languages and work in the international sector. Nathan, you are so right. So on spot. And you could have go on and on with a lot more. I know the US is not perfect, but it is been such a huge improvement for the moment I stepped out from the plane. I think I could also go on and on telling you how it is, but you know perfectly what I mean.
Thanks for your post. Hi Alicia, thanks for commenting. You totally nailed it Nathan, spot on! I think every country in the world has major issues in terms of classism that should be delt with. It took me a while to understand why this happened whereas I was just informing the comuna that was written on my mail. As for the final statement, that an American would be less impacted than a Chilean if he never left his country, I think it is just too broad to say.
Having lived in a small US city in a low populated US state, I can say travelling could do wonders for those people. Considering that the average American has much more opportunities in life work, money, respect elsewhere, etc than an average Chilean, one could say travelling could be much more fruitful for them to live a happier life and to potentially positively impact the world. Hi Fabio, thanks for commenting. I think to some extent replacing Chile and replacing the local issues would work, but I think the local issues that I pointed out in Chile are true.
Nevertheless iam not so pessimistic for the future.
Not at all. Go live abroad? That suggestion is A not affordable for everyone and B not the solution to the real problems our society has. Black and white. What about all the people in between? All the shades of the middle class. Or all the shades of the upper class really, because if you make 1 million a month you are rich! But you make me sound awfully shallow. And right know we are at the same place, graduating from Med School. And knowing the world out there is just a part of it. But the essencial thing that this country needs is education.
Also, like other people have mentioned, that kind of segregation is only seen in Santiago. And there is one more thing I want to point you out. Family is a big value here, and I think you failed to mention that. And I really agree with you that knowing the world is part of education. I would like to comment about this issue from my personal experience. I have worked on both wealthy places and poor locations. And personally I have felt discrimination in every place I have worked or studied. Not only rich people discriminate the poor, but the poor discriminate de rich, and the midclass is highly competitive, if they see you have something that could help you escalade, they discriminate you as well.
It consist about making jokes of something that could be embarrassing for you, and if you are ok with it and laugh about yourself, you will easily fit in groups. The only way to know people is to be referenced by someone else, also to get a job. It is difficult to get somewhere here, everything is so expensive, and I think that the reason is because people that have it rough sell expensive, so they can benefit from those who do well, and the hell with those who not, because the economics of that model basically works.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. Poor communication leads to a common reaction of over-interpretation. I strongly believe that this is the cause of prejudice in behavior. Over interpret instead of asking, even instead of believing the credit of the outer version l, the outer truth. In the end, Chilean people are a clear example of a critical lack of spirituality, observance and faith. At the same time a lack of leadership, and humility.
Hi Nathan, I recently married a man from MN. He went to the University of Wisonsin and we met while he was doing a semester in Chile. Thank you! Hi Camila, congrats on marrying a fellow UW alumni, haha! Also, most of them are specialist in economy-based careers, chosing countries as USA or England as destiny, where its strongly present the same reality than Chile. I think this happens because they already had contacts to arrive in a better situation than others. This will impact in the breaking-bubble perception you want they learn.
They will not change them bubble, at least they will get minor changes that will mean nothing in their comeback to our country. Niko, thanks for commenting. And they come back with another perspective. Even getting to know other privileged people in other cultures should help build bridges. I could be wrong though. The university stuff it was an example of course. But imagine yourself, many of upper-class chileans have the resources as i said before not only money to travel and when they do it, they make it in a different way that a non upper-class person do.
Same with flights. Also, the same when moving out for a time, they rent a well located flat or something, forget about co-renting of leaving in places more cheaper but with less comodities. I understand your point, but i think is very unlikely to happen in upper-class chileans because they have several ways to skip that process in order to reach an ambiance closer to their daily stuff.
And we, we have a unique way, which is designed by the host country culture. In comparison with the average chilean, that expects to get paid more while doing the same job, or expecting to get a raise and THEN do better instead of the other way around. I had the fortune to know different realities by landing a summer job as a flight attendant in Lan Chile in My only secret was the attitude change I was able to get from being able to see and compare so many different places and people: If I want something I work for it.
Hi Marcelo, thanks for commenting and congrats on your success! I really think one of the biggest barriers is just a lack on understanding between the classes from a lack of real interaction. The wealthy have little idea that most people live on k or less, and if they know the stat, have no idea what it really means to live with that level of income. The problem in Chile falls in a prehistoric educational system. I am fortunate to have friends and acquaintances all over the spectrum and I am sure more than one may have felt sad by your post, or not represented at all.
While your encouragement to leave Chile is nice, as I would probably encourage everyone in their own skin to experiencing a different culture, society, values, etc. At this stage, the problems you point out are still there preventing someone less advantageous to live the dream. So the only way at this point of someone to have that vertical mobility is through education, that on a broken system leaves less opportunities for that to happen.
So tackling a society based on the result of a bigger problem, it is irresponsible without informing the cause. To say that a ball is rounded will have many people agreeing with you, but it is a matter of perspective. Spot on, Nathan! Chile is an island in many ways even from an ecological or epidemiological point or view which is not bad but especially regarding culture which is way worse than what people even realise! Sadly most people will never be able to travel abroad because of money.
I think the travel part is changing, at least it was until the peso got really weak. With Lan, Sky and other airlines starting to compete for longer routes, I think more people are traveling abroad rather than staying in Chile. Where you in Santiago the whole time?
I agree its more prevalent in Santiago, but I still think it applies to most of Chile. I also write a blog about similar things and some people react badly to realities that hurt. When this happens, I tend to show them this video of a Colombian-Japanese speaker called Kenji Yokoi who talks about this. I think your article is limited in many ways and it shows that you didnt live outside Santiago. It sounds a foreigner own paternalism that sees us as an underdeveloped country. I have traveled around Europe and see what i have felt racism as i have ever lived un my country.
No need to tell me that foreigner, i have to do as Chilean to improve.
Angel Mas Tonto Del Mundo El (B)
What were you thinking!!!! I suppose you never say anything about any other countries? Not that way!!!! Would not have the audacity to say something like that. You have an attitude of absolute superiorityto us. Just that there are certainly things that Chile and Chileans can do to make itself better, just like the US can.
Hay mucho que mejorar, pero no desde el punto de vista de un extranjero xp!!! Tiene cero sentido. But shoot the messenger all you want! Bien por ti!!! Bueno, te digo que tener esa actitud de superioridad y dar ese tipo d consejos, sin entender nuestra historia, es a lo menos de superioridad ante otros paises. I highly dislike it. When will people learn to unite and not separate themselves from others just because of money. Thanks for trying to open some minds.. Hi Raimundo, thanks for commenting, I pretty much agree. You tell me!
I got kicked of high school for having friends with a different economical situation. What really calls my attention, is that you came to Chile as entrepreneur, with an innovative purposes. However, along the way, you discovered something even more important; why Chile and StartUp Chile cannot innovate. I think a substantial part of your description of Chile is accurate, even if you sometimes have to engage in generalizations to illustrate a point.
Nonetheless, I believe you are also talking from your own bubble when prescribing what others should do in order to fully take stock of the rampant prejudice in their home country. On occasions, you sound like the typical well-intentioned, upper middle class American who travels abroad to confirm his prejudices and see how good he has it in the U. Yes, there is more social mobility and better job opportunities in the U. Likewise, if in the U. God forbid if you have a Southern drawl. BTW, I was born in the U.
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In the U. Worship of money in the U. Most Americans, on the other hand, seem to think anyone who wants to organize workers or join a union is a filthy Commie the notion that unions are mostly for lazy workers or that they outlived their usefulness is rampant. My Chilean friends still have a hard time believing that when I tell them the U. In both, I was asked to work unpaid overtime and put on an incredible amount of extra time in exchange for nothing.
The U. Finally, if you are encouraging people to come and work in the U. Also, studying in the U. I also think your advice will be mostly helpful to working class Chileans. Most upper class Chileans who travel abroad only mingle with other upper class people at the university they attend, the school their kids go to and the neighborhood they live in. They are never exposed to any genuine diversity, let alone the rest of the country.
In other words, they behave like rich Americans and most rich people everywhere. All I wanted to point out is that, even though the U. Learning about perspectives by living there will open your mind. I understand that. Your post makes a good point, but it paints an incomplete picture that undermines it somewhat. I came to the US 40 years ago as a political exile. I understand your point because I experienced many of the things you said but I have to agree also with many of the points raised by Paula and RD. The only way we are going to make Chile a better country — and Chileans for that matter — is not by living Chile but rather by staying and helping to make the economic and educational transformations Chile needs so urgently.
Hector, thanks for commenting. I think Chileans who go abroad and come back will likely do a better job at making the transitions that chile needs. The entire point is that Chileans should leave for awhile and most will come back with a new perspective, ready to help change chile for he better. Good post, Nathan, spot on. There is only one big flaw: i think you are writing from a white privilege point of view. I think life is equal or worse on every respects for a lower class african american than for a lower class chilean.
Just to put thing in perspective. Eloy, thanks for the comment. Although the quality of education might be similar at a bad chilean school and a bad us school, if you are able to get out and be successful, nobody in the US will ask you what high school you went to.
Me encantaria saber cuantos de todos los chilenos de clase alta que han vivido en el extranjero son capaces al volver a Chile, vuelven a vivir lejos de sus zona de confort, poblar lejos de sus redes sociales y familiares, ese es el reto que yo veo. Al poblar lejos me refiero a no vivir en zonas populares o el barrio de moda. My regards to everyone from Australasia. Enjoy Australia! The ones who spent time abroad the younger the better are more conscious of it and more open-minded. Things that nobody ever asked me in my country…. I agree with the general point you are trying to make: my world was cracked open ever since I landed in Santiago, 11 years ago on a 18th of September at 8 am local time.
I found myself in a deserted city and a funky taxi-driver who smelled of wine and BBQ. Of course, las Fiestas Patrias were fully up and running. A gigantic culture-shock. Those moments shape who you are as a person by helping you discover your capabilities and what you are made of. Stressful situations expose character, and more often than not, help to build it too. For this reason alone I would recommend anyone to travel alone for a while or stay at least a year abroad, independently if you are from Chile, Europe or the USA, or the problems that your native country is currently facing or your social-demographic background if you are given the opportunity.
I am grateful to have gone through such a process and am still very happily living in Chile after all these years despite its flaws. What happens, say, if every Chilean has had an abroad experience? Good post! Wybe, thanks for sharing your experience, very interesting. I lost my time reading some comments about this post, and have concluded that our reading skills as country are poor. I would love to help you to translate this text to Spanish for free, just to share it with my monolingual friends. Just write me in fb. I do agree with the main idea that living abroad is an excellent way to be exposed to different environments, culture and ideas, however, this is something that everyone should do, not only people from Chile.
Chileans do not live in a special bubble, every country is a bubble. I have been and live in different countries and people are not always really open minded. Depends on the country and the city.
Cleanup tagged articles without a reason field ...
Of course, if you compare western European people with Southamericans or Asians, you will see some difference but only if you compare people from major cities. Use hard facts! Do you have any hard data to support all your statements?
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Is it Chile than different than China or Irak or Ukraine? Nice discussion anyway. This is a blog post on my blog. Not a scholarly article or for the newspaper although some are picking it up. My point of asking you for facts instead of your personal opinion was a way to make this post more objective because when we make public opinions about something we have to be more careful about the statements that we make and definitely more open to receive good and bad comments.
As you might notice your comment has made a lot of noise not because is offensive for Chileans but probably because it is not accurate and it is bias. How can people be sure that what you are saying is right? What if you had a really bad experience in Chile? Facts help us to distinguish between bias and objective opinions. And again, I am not defending Chilean society, on the contrary, I agree with your main point, that travelling and living in different countries probably make us better people.
Living in the 21st century and looking into the future, you have to get rid of so many childish attitudes, which los mamones cuarentones in santiago fight hard to let go. Come back with a different attitude and therefore, improve the way things are done here…. Leaving is best for the country too. Really good point that I should have included in the post. Thanks for pointing it out! As an upper class citizen I was also discriminated when I tried to mix with people from lower classes. And I understand. So when I chose to leave the bubble, everything made sense. Sad but true. Thanks for your article.
Thanks for commenting and sharing your experience. I believed that way before I left Chile for the US. It was not my country of choice. I had a lot of stereotypes about the gringos that were debunked by…living here. How can we say we are not racist when we are at war with the Mapuche? When we despise the Peruvian or the Colombian immigrant? When we make jokes about the Bolivian people and their indigenous facial features?
That is my pet peeve. At least it was my reason for not leaving earlier. I love Chile, I have wonderful childhood memories, even during dictatorship tough time to grow up in especially as a teenager , that helped me grow into the woman I am now. I love being able to go back and kiss people on the cheek for every hello and goodbye. It sounds funny but I miss that so much.
Your description of the middle-upper class Chilean was pretty accurate. You should also get some experience living in the shanty towns in Santiago. That is another Chile. Thanks for the article. Hahaha, they all come to my email, so its fairly easy to respond! Thanks for leaving a thoughtful comment! In my eyes you are very naive. I readily admit that. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Chileans would grow by experiencing new cultures.
I have lived in several countries and I know what you mean. At least not in northern Europe, where only having a foreing name can be problematic. Maybe you are right. I have known several chileans who lived in Sweden and they tell me the same, the best jobs are for Swedes. But forget the myth of Swedish women, haha. I live in Sweden and know how much Chilean men like to talk…. Besides, actual Sweden is very different from Sweden many years ago. Today is difficult even to find a cleaning job. Specially if you are a professional.
Yes, I just read that many chileans left Sweden for Chile… Sewdes must be really happy about that, because I read that most Chileans who went to Sewden were lumpen… and that explains whythe number of lumpen in Chile has increased so much as to be considered a disease… or a plague…. You have to be kidding me…. If I grab a swedish girl and the relationship becomes serious… she will have to move with me like all women do in macho style countries… 8-D.
I dont know where you heard that most Chilean in Sweden are lumpen, but if it was so, then there would not be so many Chilean politicians in the Swedish parliament,, the communes and municipalties. What are you talking about? Sincerely, it makes me laugh…. I am a culture anthropologist.
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Do you really think that I am like a doctor with fobia for the human body? Oh, you mean all the terrorist who scaped into Sweden and who later the Swedish government paid them to leave? When I was in France the conversation was always over when I said I was chilean, because that is synonym of people who steal. I read a few months ago a book about one of those terrorist who entered the Swedish parliament. He wrote a book about how the communist government did everything wrong. I read it and while i was compelling, I think he missed the whole point.
People in Chile steal and murder because the system is designed to make people compete for jobs, and capitalism is designed to get rid of inneficient companies…. That is the perfect setting for having lumpen in the streets. No developed country does that anymore.
I thought the Swedes took pity of the neanderthals… because in the eyes of people living in thesocialist paradise, the lives of people living in Chile must border on the crazy or lunatic. I am not offended. Why should I be? I just feel that people in Chile are living in a bubble. If you live in the US I hope you get a better life over there. I used to do that anyway… sometimes I got rejected though… maybe they thought I was trying to kiss them on the lips… who knows?
Probably you know quite a bit about Chilean reality. But you know what? When people alk about chilean reality they usually mean how people in the lower class live. It must be really bad when you must be consantly reminded howslave have in order o be able to get on with your life. I was just replying to what you said about Nathan. This whole conversation seems to be like a huge misundertanding, which is typically chilean, by the way. I had a very good laugh, thanks anyway, you are really funny… and smart… since you studied that…. We just have different points of view, that is all. As typical chileans when we try to explain ourselves it seems we are running a bulldozer over what other people think.
That is cultural trait. The real advantage is that the US has smart people working in the government, in the industry, etc. A country without any industry, work is seen as something to avoid, and people avoid it as much as they can, while in the US people love to feel themselves useful, to learn and to be compensated fairly. There is a latinatization of the american workplace… Scrum for example is going against industrialization… Most products are built in China these days… So how does americans expect to have jobs in the future?
From day zero the business was extraction of natural resources, and even for that we needed the help of the British and the Americans, because doing anything requires knowledge from people who knows how to do it… every job on earth has at least 10 generations of people learnning and teaching the next generation… Starting from zero is impossible… And lacking the right culture, it is impossible to organize people….
Being a good worker is demeaning to the worker, while it should be the other way around, but the bible says that work is a punishment from god. Im Chilean American. I lived in the US and went to high school in Santiago for 2 years and visit often. My two homes… but everything you wrote is very true, and I agree! I also agree everyone in every country should travel abroad. Not just Chileans, not just Americans. You want him to become chilean in order to talk about chileans? When you arrive to Chile the airport smells like shit. But take into. In europe people can claim to. Some even less than But you were complaining the same about the author of this post because he was living here for just 5 years if I remember correctly.
That is unfair and pretty obxonobious on your part. He is entitled to have his opinion even if he has been here for 5 days. Actually americans seem to like this place, which I really dislike. Maybe they are too polite, but they insist new york is even worse… is that a compliment? Maybe we need to wait for the next 8 richter earthquake to happen, if he still wants to stay here, he really means it. You can kiss people twice in Spain. In France in some places you kiss 3 times and in some others you kiss 4 times. The girls being so beautiful I never get tired of that. I prefer the american way of thinking and the way of doing things every time.
People really say what they think. The same is true about Europe. People in latin america never tell the truth. The lie about irrelevant stuff, as if practicing to become professional liers. Also, they never contradict you, like if that was good manners or something like that. Chileans are really crazy. This is the only latin american country in which people talk about the queen of England as if they received her every weekend during the tea time.
I never realized this myself until a cultural orientation book written by americans, for americans, got into my hands. Shanty towns? Or raped? I agree with you most Latin Americans are not direct. That frustrates me a lot from my people. I tend to be a pretty blunt person. Some Latinos like my way, but most find me arrogant, condenscending. But for me, political correctness does not exist in my dictionary, hehehe. Gringos are inept in those categories. They do not know how to be good friends and are too cold and insipid for my tastes most of them.
But keep in mind many Americans are also into the political correctness BS, especially about classism, racism, and so on. For me, I could have care less if gringos ended up liking me or not. I have enough friends, and heck, there are much more interesting and cool people out of their country than their are.
That is reality of life. I admit most Americans did not like that part of my attitude, but do not care. I am a Mexican of a light olive complexion many people when I was in USA thought I was Chilean due to my facial features and skin colour as the average Mexican that goes to the USA is brown and with dominant Indigenous features , come from an upper middle class background in Mexico, and I used to live not too far from you, in West Chester, PA to be more precise. I used to live there for 14 years, and honestly, living in the US was the worst years of my life people in West Chester might be same social class as me and with money, but they are provincial peasants in their way of thinking and mentality as they do tend to be quite narrow minded and very ignorant about other countries and cultures.
The weather in PA is horrible as it snows terrible in winter and the summers are very hot and humid. Although I was more accepted by gringos because of my lighter skin colour and not stereotypical illegal Mexican immigrant appearance, however, I was still seen as a foreigner, and only superficially was accepted but not too deeply, even though I came from the same social class as them and I even dress much better than them remember that vast majority of gringos dress horrible by Latin American and European standards.
I dare to say on average, Mexican people middle class and up are better looking physically than gringos of the same social class. I also did not find gringas to be particularly attractive in West Chester or Philadelphia I prefer much more Mexican or Chilean women of my social class or middle class really, Arab, Japanese, Mediterranean and Russian girls.
The gringas in WC do not tend to date foreigners even if they have money, regardless of their skin colour. The vast majority only married with other Americans and dated them. I honestly see much more beautiful, cultured, and kind women in my native Guadalajara or in Santiago I was there for a semester.
Loved the experience. This, as a result, made my experiences and I admit I am very pessimistic and quite narrow minded about the USA, its culture, and mentality. Contrary to what gringos often think about us, regardless of social class, vast majority of Mexicans do not like the US, its culture, mentality, and lifestyle. We either go there temporarily illegall or legally like in my case to worka few years, save money, and come back here and take all our savings with us. After graduating from university, to recover my sanity and not fall into a worse depression, I decided to go back to Mexico.
I do not regret my decision. I would not want nor have the wish to return there long term. I am staying here as I have certain status here, my family, friends, great weather, good job, nice apartment, good looking girls in my city, great food. And I have the right to state this as I used to live there for a very long time, so I know gringos very well and their hypocrite, cunning, two face behaviours you will not deny it as you know is true.
Their political correctness is another way to say they are hypocrites. Never caught up my attention. It is a long story why I ended up there, and I was a minor at the time, so did not had much options. Loved the experience This, as a result, made my experiences and I admit I am very pessimistic and quite narrow minded about the USA, its culture, and mentality. Loved reading this! I started reading the comments in the morning and got sometime to do it in the evening, but there are so many now!
I agree with everything you said. As an English teacher, I was able to teach them about other countries and cultures. In this country, you pay to go to school not only to have a better education, you do it to meet people who will help you get a better lifestyle or maintain it. The US government has a lot to do with how we are as a society right now and the same can be said to the reality of many countries around the world. And a funny thing, when you meet gringos in other countries you can really tell how naive they are about this and so many other things your governments have done throughout history.
I hope everyone from any country can have the chance to travel abroad or to immerse themselves in a different culture. The bad thing is coming back and try to live in this country with your new mindset. How can we improve our current situation? Thanks for the kind words and the long comment. We need to improve our educational system in order to change our current situation. I hope people in our government could see that. Well I guess the same could be said of Japan and the UK and other insular societies, but at least the former two are actually exposed to the real world, Chile is still too far isolated down there.
Hi Victor, thanks for commenting! I knew that before and I will know it for ever… Good post Nathan!! So… any personal suggestions? Now, the second point is more particular to Chile. As noted somewhere in the comments, the incomes in Chile make it very difficult to travel abroad.